‍

Welcome to the 16th episode of Brick by Brick: Building Insurgent Brands, we're excited to host Andrew Kandolha, co-founder of SATURDAYS. Andrew shared his valuable experience and insights on the strategic importance of scaling retail stores for emerging brands like SATURDAYS.

In a conversation with Sameer Mehta, Andrew delves into how SATURDAYS has evolved from a fledgling start-up to a tech-enabled omnichannel brand with an app, website, and 51 stores in 19 cities across Indonesia in a matter of 2 years. Tune in to learn how strategic location selection, operational excellence, and a customer-centric approach propelled SATURDAYS to revolutionize the eyewear retail landscape in Indonesia.

‍

Transcript:

‍

Welcome everyone to episode 16 of the Brick by Brick series by DSG Consumer Partners, where we talk with some of the brightest minds building insurgent brands across India and Southeast Asia. For those who don't know DSG Consumer Partners, we're an early stage consumer focused venture capital fund, investing across India and Southeast Asia. We manage more than 300 million dollars on behalf of our investors and have invested in 85 insurgent brands, straddling consumer products and services since 2012. 

My name is Sameer Mehta and I run our Southeast Asia efforts. I'm delighted to welcome Andrew John, who's a co-founder of Saturdays, one of Indonesia's leading insurgent omnichannel eyewear brands. Today we're going to discuss a very interesting topic. It's a topic that we feel doesn't get reflected on often enough, especially by venture capitalists, and certainly doesn't have the same...let's call it sex appeal amongst founders, which is scaling using physical stores. DSGCP had the pleasure of investing in Saturdays in early 2022 when it was a fledgling startup with five stores and Andrew and Rama running around helter-skelter. In fact, it was my first investment after joining DSGCP, so it has a very fond place in my heart. We're in a very different period today in April 2024 when we're recording than when we first found them.

‍

Andrew, why don't you share a little bit about your background, how you ended up in Indonesia because you are not Indonesian, and walk us through the decade in Indonesia before you started Saturdays with Rama.

‍

Andrew (01:54.076)

Great. Thanks for having me, Sameer. And nice introduction there. So as you mentioned, I'm not Indonesian. I actually grew up in the US and went to school there. Then after several years of working in the investment industry, I decided to go back and do my MBA. So I followed a pretty traditional path as one would do finance and then go back and do the MBA. And then I moved to Indonesia post-MBA to get on the ground experience working in a emerging market and veered way off course. So it was a huge risk at the time, but I figured I'd give it a couple of years and then move back to the U.S. But I kind of missed that mark by several years to build a brand called Saturdays. And when I first arrived in Indonesia, I worked for a big traditional company. And that's where I met my co-founder Rama. And Rama likes to say that...He was my first friend in Indonesia, but we also worked pretty well together and got to know each other's strengths and weaknesses and became great friends. And one thing's for sure, we both wanted to do something different and make an impact beyond the corporate grind. And that led us to explore a side hustle together. We were both kind of burnt out, and so doing something more fun and creative was pretty appealing at the time. We worked on Saturday's concept for about a year before we launched it. And at that time I joined an e-commerce startup and did Saturdays, nights and weekends as a side hustle while Rama left our previous company to work on Saturdays full time. But as the business expanded, we both needed to focus on it. So in 2019, I joined full time and we're all in.

Still back in 2019, we're bootstrapping and opened up two stores on our own before we closed our first round of capital in early 2020. Then COVID hit shortly after. And obviously that was an extremely difficult situation for us, but we managed through it and continued to build the business and raised our next round of capital with yourself, Sameer and Altara. And today we've grown into a tech-enabled omnichannel brand with an app, website, and 51 stores in 19 cities across Indonesia.

‍

Sameer (04:14.436)

Amazing. And you know, what I think is really important for the founders who might be listening in later on to this to remember as an investor who gets pitched hundreds of ideas every year, sometimes every quarter. What I really love to see is how convinced are you as a founder to do it? So are you waiting for somebody else to enable you? Or are you doing something with the resources available to you and the effort and time and energy that you can put in to get started? And what we really liked about when we first met you is, you didn't wait for anyone. You guys got started, right? And you got started in a small way. I still keep telling you to keep that archive in the photo of you guys at the markets selling glasses, literally hand to hand, because it's important to remember how one started, right? So wonderful, thanks for the introduction.

Let's move on a little bit to, you know, you talked about doing something creative, doing something interesting as an outlet from perhaps some of the things that weren't completely satisfying about the corporate work. But why choose eyewear, right? It's not a category that excites a lot of people, I would say. It has a bit of a reputation for sameness and seemingly undifferentiated. So what problems were you trying to solve for Indonesians? Because that's what you were focused on and still are. So what's the vision?

‍

Andrew (05:40.412)

Yeah. So, so why eyewear? We saw an opportunity to build a big eyewear brand in Indonesia and beyond. And Indonesia eyewear is an old and boring industry. So there's really little to inspire consumers for products and tech, but also just in general for eye health. So what we're doing is we're bringing a fresh vision to a stale industry by providing a better customer experience and cool, hip eyewear, but also making it accessible to get free eye exams in all 51 of our stores and just in general creating awareness. So eyesight globally is not getting better, it's getting worse. And in Asia, it's even a bigger challenge. So the World Health Organization released a report stating by 2050, half of the global population will have vision impairment. And many Indonesians don't even know that they need glasses. So, beyond making a cool and fashionable eyewear brand, we aim to help solve a larger problem of vision correction. And eyewear was something personally interesting to both myself and Rama because we've been wearing glasses since we were kids. So we're familiar with the product and the pain points as customers. And I had also gone to school with the founders of Warby Parker. So I really had a front row view of how the eyewear category was transformed in the US. And those guys did an amazing job building that brand and making good quality eyewear cool and affordable. But also it seemed like they had a lot of fun in the process. And then for Rama, he grew up in Indonesia and it was hard for him to find good quality and stylish glasses at affordable prices. 

Indonesian eyewear, as I mentioned, is traditional. There are few big players of scale and mostly these guys are resellers of expensive Luxotica frames. And then there are the mom and pops which usually sell cheaper glasses but poor quality or fake goods. So no one was focusing on that next generation of Indonesian consumers. And we thought this was a huge opportunity and someone was going to make a local eyewear champion. So why not us?

‍

Sameer (08:07.044)

Amazing. No, that's, you know, I like the focus on a real problem. And again, this is not a want. This is a clear need. The interesting part, as you said, is how many Indonesians don't even realize that they have this need, right? And finding a way to bridge that gap. And indeed, eyewear, I think, broadly in our region and our region being emerging Asia is still, you know, dominated by old stodgy companies, I would say, right? Almost your grandparents and your parents eye retailers, if you will. Excellent.

So when I first met you, I believe it was five stores or maybe even four stores. We were in the middle of COVID. We, in fact, a funny story, we never met in person till well after our investment, which, you know, thinking back to the COVID days is pretty wild, right? Now if somebody asked me, would I ever invest in a team without physically meeting them, my answer would be, you must be crazy. But we actually did that, right? And then we interacted several times over Zoom in this way, over chat, and so on and so forth. But, you know, at that time, there were still a lot of things that were yet to be proven. We've come a long way since then, as you said, as of April 2024, we have 51 stores, 19 cities. That work is not easy. 

So let us help the audience, some of whom hopefully will be thinking about building their own brick and mortar chains across Indonesia and many other countries in our region, what does it take to choose, design, and build a Saturdays store? So what's the secret sauce, in so much as you can give it away?

‍

Andrew (09:55.004)

Sure, sure. I mean, absolutely, you're right. It isn't easy opening stores anywhere, but in Indonesia, especially for a new brand. And we have a great team that helps make this happen. And we've also been blessed with some good fortune. Before the pandemic, malls didn't even want to talk to us. It was extremely difficult to even get a meeting, let alone a space, right? So the pandemic actually provided us with a window of opportunity to secure locations and further prove out our concept due to a struggling retail market. So actually COVID provided the spark that we needed. And it's still not easy to secure great locations, but at least now the malls pick up our call, right.

So as for the nuts and bolts of opening a store, I'll try to break it down into a simplified step by step. So one, location, our team researches malls with high traffic potential and the presence of other optical players. And then we group these into tierings and then start establishing relationship with mall owners and the leasing. We'll typically have conversations over months or even years regarding spaces. And once a suitable space becomes available, then the mall will provide an initial offering. And then second, we have an internal review, right? We have our own checklist to make sure it's a location that we want to negotiate on. And I would encourage founders to have a selection process to ensure a much better success rate. And this could be traffic counting, mall location, the surrounding tenants. There's a number, right? And we also review the economics and analyze what makes sense to meet our targets. And then we go on to the negotiation, right? So if everything checks out and we decide to move forward, then there would be a back and forth, hopefully reaching an agreement that both parties can live with. And then after signing, we work to finalize a design that is exciting and appropriate for the space and

‍

Andrew (12:18.332)

Once we get the approval from the mall, then we select a contractor who can execute on our designs and on time and on budget. And typically once we get the approval from the mall for the design, we would aim to open within 30 to 60 days. In regards to obstacles, there's so many to go through one by one, but I would say most of these surrounding, getting the project done on time, on budget, and with the results that we would expect.

‍

Sameer (12:53.252)

Understood. No, I mean, I know how difficult it was and I know it still continues to be less than easy, right. I wish we could tell people that there is a long list of people waiting for us to pick the prime spots and give us first port of call. We're not quite there yet, but we will get there. And it certainly helps that we no longer have to explain what Saturdays is, right. And people see it and have a feeling for it.

And for those who have not had a chance to experience a Saturdays store, you know seeing is believing so I encourage folks who ever go through Jakarta or other cities in Indonesia to please reach out and find one of our locations and if necessary be a mystery shopper for us and tell us how you feel about the experience.

Let's talk a little bit about a subject close to my heart, which is optimization, right? Venture has gone through an interesting phase over the last three years when capital was cheap in the zero interest rate era. The only thing that seemed to matter for most of my peer sets was top level growth, right? Show me that you can grow revenue. Don't mind how much it costs. Don't mind whether the unit economics makes sense. Don't mind whether store paybacks will ever happen. Show me you can grow at a rapid clip. We've gone through an interesting transition, right? Where we had that moment and then very quickly we saw things turning and we -- I don't want to say course-corrected, but we moved into the optimization phase much faster than perhaps some of the peer companies we have in the region.

So talk to us a little bit about how do you measure success for a new store? So let's start there. So we've launched a store. What are the three things or five things that we're really focused on to be able to look back 6, 12, 18, 24 months later and say that store was successful? And then what learnings has that created to think about optimizing the entire fleet that we have today and the future fleet of hundreds more stores that we're going to have in the near future.

‍

Andrew (14:57.244)

Okay. I think firstly, we take a long term view in building our brand and always thought an omnichannel approach was the best way to build our company in a sustainable and capital efficient manner. And that approach includes building and operating stores. And not only are stores great for sales, but also they're our best marketing channel, right? So, great store location is really the foundation for our store ramp up but also there are several other things that we must get right in order for these stores to ramp up more quickly, right? And so these include first manpower, right? Before a store opens, having people trained and ready to go is critical. And this includes all sales associate, opticians, store manager, baristas. And in addition, we often send an experienced team to help accelerate the learnings for new stores, especially if the store is located outside of Jakarta. Secondly, it is on visual merchandising. So making sure that all the signage, visual assets, and the right products are in the store play a huge role in attracting customers and educating them about our brand. And next, we have offline advertising. So when we open a store, we need to get the word out. One way we do this is by placing strategic signage in and around the mall, following our opening to get that boost of traffic right when we open. And lastly, it comes down to having the right products on the shelf. So we have to be sure to have the right products mix, as different malls and different cities -- especially what we're finding now, being in 19 cities across Indonesia, these can have different customer behavior, right? And so therefore, we need to have full shelves with a variety of frames and price ranges to target different market segments. And I think just in terms of also some, you know, metrics that, you know, we care about and we pay attention to at the store level.

‍

Andrew (17:21.948)

First and foremost is NPS at a store level. So not only do we track it on a company-wide basis, but also on a store-by-store basis. EBITDA margin per store, revenue per square meter, payback, same store sales growth, all these fun things we talk about in the board meetings, right? And these give us a pretty good overview of how a store is performing.

‍

Sameer (17:48.612)

Yeah, no, it's excellent. In the trade, for the benefit of others, this is called box level economics, right? Which is to think about each box and what you can accomplish with that box. And there are nuances as you correctly identified and we're learning as we go. So it's not like we've finished our learning on this front, but a tier A mall in Jakarta's behavior versus a tier B mall in a third tier city has a different shape and a different look and feel, right? So we need to be reflective of that. But we're still far from done. We have a long way to go ahead of us.

Let's talk about team, right? You referred to manpower as the most critical part of it, right? One thing that's going faster than the number of stores is the number of employees at Saturdays. I remember when we first met, maybe there were 20, 25. And now I want to say there's 500, but you'll correct me if the April number is higher than that.

‍

Andrew (18:45.244)

Almost there, more than 400 now.

‍

Sameer (18:48)

Um, almost there. Okay. More than 400. So talk to me a little bit about, you know, what are the challenges that you faced, hiring that many people that fast, building culture, right, building capability and upskilling the team. And finally, which is the most important thing, retaining the best talent that we have, right? Because the worst thing you can do as a growing company is hire people, build them up.

‍

Sameer (19:15.492)

And just as they start hitting their productive stride, lose them either because they have better opportunities or because they're not being looked after, their career paths are not being laid out, any number of factors, right? But this continues to be, I would say amongst the 85 companies that we have invested in over the last 12 years, the number one problem, right? Which is the people problem. And it manifests in different ways for a small company, a medium-sized company, a large company, but it is still top of mind.

So talk to me a little bit about what we have done so far and what you feel will need to continue to be done in the near future as our numbers continue to grow.

‍

Andrew (19:55.356)

Having more than 400 people working with us, we aren't just an eyewear brand anymore. We're also a human capital company, right? So since Rama and I are not interacting with every employee on a daily basis any longer, we need to have a clear vision to guide, inspire, and bring a sense of shared purpose to attract the right people to our company.

And our mission since the beginning is to elevate Indonesian eyewear by providing a modern solution for vision impairment and inspire customers to look and feel good. And we have a set of core values that guide our company and its culture. And we actually have an acronym for our core values called “Sabtu”. Any ideas, Sameer, what it means?

‍

Sameer (20:44.612)

Okay, interesting. My Bahasa is non-existent. You're gonna have to educate me.

‍

Andrew (20:49.212)

it's “Saturday” in Bahasa. So let me go through them real quick. Sabtu, right? So S, simple don't over complicate it maintain positive attitude be reliable and stay humble. Then A, agile ability to work quickly and pivot when necessary. B, for bold be fearless never give up and strive for excellence. T, think differently challenge conventional wisdom, problem solve and invent. And then U, understand the customer, right, so maintain a customer mindset in all that we do.

So there you go, “Sabtu”, you learned a new word too, “Saturday” in Bahasa. 

‍

Sameer (21:31.172)

Excellent, excellent, excellent. No, wonderful, wonderful.

‍

Andrew (21:35)

So the most challenging aspect for our company is having the right people in the right place at the right time who believe in our mission and share our same values, right? So different stages of the company usually require different kinds of people. At the beginning, we had a lot of generalists who wore multiple hats to get things done. But honestly, we couldn't even get senior talents due to budget constraints. And most people didn't even know the Saturdays brand. So we had to hire more juniors and upskill internally while also giving opportunities for people to grow, be agile, and adapt. And so as Saturdays has grown larger, we've been blessed with more resources and better branding. So we're focused on attracting and hiring the right senior talents to shorten the learning curve and reduce our execution risks. And for all levels, we look for candidates who know the Saturdays brand and are excited to join the company.

On the store side, we went through a lot of growing pains. You probably remember a lot of conversations, you know, talking about hiring and training of store associates and opticians, especially when we opened more than 30 stores in 2022. We didn't have a deep bench of staff to help with training or development program in place, so it was really trial by fire. Since then, we've set up Saturdays Academy in which all of our new sales associates go through several weeks of classroom training and then in-store training after that. We also offer full scholarships for high potential employees to earn an optometry degree as part of our retention program. So, you know, these are things that, you know, we're still are a work in progress, but we've come a long way since having 25 employees way back then. And in terms of motivating and upskilling, the key really is trust. So empower employees, give them the opportunity to make mistakes and learn. We want to create a fun working environment while also focusing on talent density to deliver high quality outputs and really provide a safe place for employees to grow.

‍

Sameer (23:51.716)

Wonderful. No, I mean, and I've seen firsthand the difference, right? And I, for those who don't know, when I'm in Jakarta, I mystery shop at all our stores or try to mystery shop at all our stores. And then I provide feedback and I've had less and less constructive feedback to provide, which is a good sign.

Let's shift--shifting focus a little bit, right? We are known for relatively unique experiential stores, right. NPS, we measure NPS like hawks, as you know. Our NPS has been above 80 almost since inception, which is a world-class number, and it's a hard number to accomplish and maintain as you have more and more stores and more and more touch points with more and more people. That's not easy to do, right. That's sort of Apple territory, if you will.

‍

We're focused on the younger millennial consumer, right. We're trying to capture that, let's call it 18 college-goer to first-jobber. 18 to 35 would be, I think, our sweet spot if people were to ask me. Doesn't mean we can't serve others, but that's when we're trying to speak to in the most relevant way possible. That age group is almost by definition digital-first, right? They grew up with a smartphone in their hands. Indonesians spend, for those who may not know, an average of almost four hours online on various social media every single day. So it's really a gobsmacking number.

So talk to us a little bit about to complement the physical store experience, what have we done vis-a-vis the web experience, the app experience to try and build this all together, right? Because the consumer of the future, our opinion, is going to want to be met wherever they want to be met, right. And it could be in a store, it could be online, it could be in a marketplace. They don't care, right? They want to have an experience with Saturdays, and how do we unify that? So talk to us a little bit about what we're doing on your digital front today and what we might be doing in the near future.

‍

Andrew (25:52.796)

So as I mentioned before, one of our core values is understanding the customer. So it's a constant journey to find the best ways to engage with them. And we take a tech-enabled, omnichannel approach so customers can have a great shopping experience. And really any channel they find convenient, whether that's online, offline, chat, social media. And we offer even a home try-on service that we launched during COVID in which customers can book an appointment and our optician will come to the customer's home, conduct a free eye exam, but also bring 100 or so frames for the customer to try. We also have a corporate health and wellness program where we send our opticians to offices to conduct free eye exams and employees can try and transact on the spot. And as we grow and technologies improve, we anticipate digital to play even a larger role.

Some of the other ways we've leveraged technology is, as we mentioned, we built an app where we can engage our fans in really a different way than social media. For instance, customers will have their current and historical prescriptions stored digitally on the app and even be reminded when they're due for their next checkup. So customers can then explore the latest collections and make a purchase with their prescription on file. And another great thing is customers can earn and redeem Saturdays points on the purchases.

And you mentioned about Saturdays having more digital-firsts, right? And so we've introduced Saturdays AI, right. And our customers are able to scan their face and receive frame recommendations based on their face shape and size along with several other factors and then actually try on frames virtually. The next step for this would be as more and more customers try on frames virtually, the AI gets smarter and smarter at recommending frames and customers can have an actual interactive try on experience. And we would be able to make personalized recommendations so when new collections are released, we already know the customers, they would fit best.

‍

Sameer (28:15.46)

Yeah, no, excellent. I'm very excited about that. I was just to put the full story together. My first eyewear experience was actually with Warby. It was when I first started needing glasses, was in college. And this is when Warby was just starting out. It was such a wonderful experience of “I'm going to get five RX frames at home and I can select the ones that I like and send the others back.” It was just a transformative experience. I think, but it's still, and I think in our region, the return bit creates inertia. So it's important to try and improve the odds that the individual will love how the frame sits on their face because eyewear is deeply personal, right? I should wear glasses, but I'm too vain, so I don't, but I do wear my Saturdays sunglasses all the time. And this I picked out with you, if you remember, and it really mattered to me how it fit on my face, right. And if you could find something that allows me to do that, then more of my wallet will be donated to Saturdays in the near future. That's great.

Let's shift focus a little bit onto the product side of the equation. So when we always go and walk the streets when we're together in Jakarta to see what other people are doing or not doing. And clearly, the mom and pop shops are stuck in a completely different world. And understandably so. They have fewer resources, perhaps space for imagination is lesser. There's a bit of sameness to the offering. You are one of the few young brands offering your own brand of frame. We don't sell anybody else's frame at this point in time. It's all Saturdays, made to our spec based on the design instincts of our team. 

Talk to us a little bit about some of the interesting things you've done in terms of collaborations, limited releases, even different lines, right? We have the Classic line, we have the Junior line, we have the Vibe line, and now we have the Active line. I think people will be quite curious on how do you build a proper catalog in what I think many people would say, well, this is not a place where you can easily differentiate a product. So talk to us a little bit about that.

‍

Andrew (30:32.316)

There's a lot of different parts to this question, but first and foremost, we believe that eyewear is not only for function, but it's also a fashion accessory and a way to express yourself. And we love to create eyewear that people love. And now that's a simple statement, but not easy to do. And we get inspiration from all over the world. What are the trending styles, materials, and so forth. But ultimately, we're inspired by the local market and design our eyewear in Jakarta specifically to look great on Asian consumers. And a big part of how Saturdays makes Indonesians look good and feel good is we're not buying some off-the-shelf design and just slapping our label on it. All of our designs are unique and can be only found at a Saturdays store or online through our channels, right. And this just isn't about the style of the frame, but also down to the details of quality, sizing, the hinges, nose pads, so it just fits better for Asians. And previously, the Asian consumer had to settle for glasses built for, you know, Western faces. And that's certainly not ideal. We spend a lot of time, maybe too much time, obsessing over these small details to produce great quality and great fitting products. And we don't always get it right, but we continue to learn and iterate so we can be sure to deliver great products that inspire confidence. And even today, Rama and I still review every new product because we think it's so important.

In terms of collaborations, we collaborate with various brands or people that we believe could have an impactful connection with our community. We like to work with others who we can learn from and find inspiring. And making cool products and unique products together is a lot of fun. And many times, both sides discover new fans because of the collab. We've done with Marvel and Indomie, and these are both iconic brands in Indonesia. Indomie is a legendary noodle company here that really nearly everyone grows up eating. So immediately customers feel that emotional connection with the brand. And then of course Marvel, which is, you know, who isn't inspired by superheroes? And no other eyewear brand in this part of the world had partnered with these companies. And we felt we could create some unique and fun products that would hopefully wow our customers. And as we connect with more of Indonesia, we need to expand our product offerings to reach a broader audience. And that's why we started Saturdays Vibe and Junior lines to do just that. These collections are created with the same spirit as our original Classic line, but geared towards different markets. So our Vibe frames are bolder and edgier designs with a lower price point. So these are really popular for sunnies, whereas our Junior frames, like the name suggests, is for our youngest customers that can grow with us and combines both the style and functionality.

‍

Sameer (34:07.236)

Excellent, excellent. No, and I think how thoughtful you guys are about the catalog is always inspiring to us. At times, as people ask us, what do you look for in consumer founders, we often talk about obsession. And so it's very hard to be obsessed about something you're not hopelessly in love with, is our opinion. Because only you know some of the micro details of the hinges and the nose pads. Nobody else knows. And a lot of people will say, well, who really cares? Well, the customer for whom they had a bad experience, they care. And we are in the business of delighting one customer at a time. And I think that orientation is really, really powerful and important. And you guys certainly exemplify it.

Looking forward, right. We've talked a little bit about the past. We've talked a bit about the scaling and a lot of the foundation building that Saturdays has already gone through. As you think about the next, let's say three years, what can the audience thinking about what Saturdays will look like in 2026, 2027 look forward to?

‍

Andrew (35:21.404)

Okay, well, we think just, you know, growing a brand, you know, sustainably and operational excellence is already pretty exciting, right? So, but we also like to be a leader in our space, right. We were the first DTC eyewear brand in Indonesia, the first to offer a coffee experience alongside eyewear, the first to introduce home trial service, have an app, you get the idea.

So we plan to continue to innovate and wow our customers, right. And I don't want to give away all the excitement, but a few things to look out for. First is more product diversification, right? We have some pretty cool new lines coming up to target different market segments and lifestyles, such as a sports collection, which we believe will be popular with the running and fitness communities, but also even great for a weekend in Bali. 

Again, collaborations. We'll continue to launch more exciting collaborations, both with local and international brands. So stay tuned for those.

On the tech side, we'll continue to invest in technology to provide a more seamless shopping experience and improve on our Saturdays AI and virtual try-on experiences.

And really lastly, we'll expand our store footprint further across Indonesia. Right now we're in 19 cities. We need to grow further. We need to have more cities and touchpoints to serve more customers and provide greater convenience for people to shop anywhere and anytime.

‍

Sameer (37:09.476)

Excellent, excellent. Andrew, thanks a lot. I learned a lot. You know, I spend a lot of time with you and yet I still learned some new things today. I'm sure the audience will have learned a lot. You can obviously find us at saturdays.com. Check out our glasses. If you are unconvinced, reach out to one of us and we'll try and convince you why you should try. Thanks a lot, buddy. Take care.

‍

Andrew (37:34.972)

Thanks, Sameer, it's been fun.

‍

‍